Yesterday I read one of the most frustrating blog posts I’ve ever come across. The post is titled “Saying Goodbye To Friends Who Reject Jesus,” and it’s filled to the brim with vitriolic rejection of people who merely have differing opinions about god than the author. Let me be clear: She’s not merely saying that she rejects people who don’t believe in god, she’s turning her back on friendships that date back to her childhood because they live lifestyles with which she disagrees (I’m not exactly sure what those lifestyles are).
She writes:
Your non-Christian friends may say they believe in God, but reject Him with their lifestyles, or have set up their own false god, one who is okay with sin. And to stay friends with people who continue to deny their need of repentance and salvation from sin, is to deny and disobey Christ.
She then quotes a bunch of bible verses, including 2 John 1:10-11, which tells Christians to deny anyone who doesn’t live by Jesus. She finishes her post like this:
Sometimes, there are people in our lives we were once very close to that we have to say goodbye to now for Jesus. To stay friends with someone who continues to reject Him is to befriend an enemy of His.
I immediately replied that I thought this was a horrible message. She replied with a metaphor about whether or not we should be friends with people who hate our spouses. To this another user — quite possibly a Christian, but he never identified himself as one — replied with the following:
To you analogy: OK, so I’ll pretend someone hates my wife. Let’s call her Sarah. Would I want Sarah in my life? Probably not. But what if my wife was perfectly patient and kind and loving, and what if she desperately wanted to be in Sarah’s life because she wants to save her from eternal suffering? Well, then I’d do everything I could for Sarah! I would just casually tell her good things about my wife and live a good life in hopes that Sarah’s curiosity would eventually peak. I wouldn’t reject Sarah out of petty, protective loyalty unless she stood to do my wife harm.
Beautiful.
This post underscores the dangers of religious thinking. This is intolerance at best, hatred at worst. This is precisely the kind of thinking that leads to mothers and fathers kicking their unbelieving children to the streets. This is precisely the kind of thinking that destroys families and friendships (which it did in this case). And this is precisely the kind of thinking that leads to people picketing funerals. She hasn’t gotten that far yet, and I hope she won’t. But this is just awful.
To make matters worse, a young woman also commented on the post, “Looking back I encourage every believer to cut off friends that obviously disregard God.” In other words, this could be systemic rather than an isolated case of intolerance.
The Atheist Papers 
I’m so glad to read this as I think the attitude this lady displayed towards her fellow human beings is a lot more common than people think. It is my view that all monotheistic religions create this divide of ‘us’ and ‘them’, the ‘saved’ and the ‘damned’ etc. This lady believes she knows the truth and everyone else is an enemy of this truth.
For me, we can’t get rid of religion quick enough!
I wholeheartedly agree with your us/them divide argument. I hope she can in time come to love her friends again.
I think her friends are better off to be honest but either way this is a perfect example of the Us/they divide that religion promotes. There would be chaos if atheists got together and discussed the view that all believers are delusional and should be avoided…
And is not atheism the kind of thing that leads students to gun each other down since they’re the weaker specimen? And that we can abort over 50 million helpless children in their mothers womb because they are an inconvenience? And causes other mass genocide like Hitler’s toward the Jews? I’m not propagating hatred. In love, I tell people the truth about their sin. To believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that hell exists, and that those who never repent of their sins, lying, cheating, stealing, lusting etc. and accept Christ who died for their sins and rose again that they may defeat it in their own lives and be free from it and receive eternal life, to not tell people about this, but continual turn a blind eye to their ways is true hatred. In love I told my friends and waited patiently for over five years for them to change. They show no remorse so I wipe the dust off my feet, and continue going. Bad company corrupts good morals. Their morale does not agree with mine, so I chose to walk away from that friendship. I did not include that my friend felt the same way toward me and agreed we should part ways.
The fact that you said you know for certain hell exists shows you cannot be reasoned with. Also, amongst your babble I noticed that you said lusting was deserving of gods eternal wrath. Lusting? Would that constitute a thought crime?
Haha! Yeah, we can’t help but lust. It’s a natural human response to things we want (sex, power, etc.). If god exists, I doubt he’d get all pissy about things we can’t control.
Well, to make us one way and demand we behave against our nature is even more absurd. I’d chose an afternoon of lust over god any day
Yes, God is that holy that He considers our hearts and very thoughts and motives. Nothing is hidden before Him. Your claim that I cannot be reasoned with because I believe in hell is merely your opinion. Jesus proved His divinity by healing the blind and lame, by never sinning, and ultimately by raising Himself from the dead after three days. He’s revealed Himself to me in undeniable ways and has transformed my heart life His Word promises. It has been five years since I began this personal relationship with God through His Son, and I only become more convinced of it. No, I do not see Him, but does your blindness to sound waves and electrons cause disbelief of them? The evidence is there, just as there is an incredible amount of evidence pointing to a Creator, and Christ as the Son of God. Because I know Christ to be true, and have experienced His promises in my own life and in the lives of many others countless times, I believe all of His teachings, including the existence of a place of eternal judgement and destruction called hell.
That’s a pretty crazy rant. I don’t know many Christians like you. When I read your rants I do it in the God Warrior’s voice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns
oh my!
I’m sorry if you thought I said you cannot be reasoned with because you believe in hell. It’s the fact that you’re certain of hell which makes you out to be one who cannot be reasoned with. you cannot be certain of this as nobody has this kind of information.
I understand your point about sound waves and electrons being invisible to the naked eye, but, unlike Jesus, you can empirically test and calculate both sound waves and electrons. You can measure their behaviour and assess their impact on their surroundings.
I don’t know what else to say except thanks for your honesty, I’m glad that you have managed to find something in your life that has given you great meaning and strength.
You talk a lot about proof and evidence though, which has got me wondering. Maybe you have been told there is proof or mislead into thinking there is credible evidence to support what you believe? I say mislead because the entire human race has yet to produce a single shred of empirical evidence… What we have managed to uncover is evidence of a long, gradual and complex model of evolution, one where there is no need for god to have been involved as it works perfectly fine without any supernatural assistance or interference. Just a thought.
Hitler was a catholic who believed he was divinely inspired. He had beliefs quite similar to yours.
Oh, yeah. Wasn’t it a Christian terrorist that had gun down a doctor?
More babble anyone?
More babble indeed
BTE quote
And is not atheism the kind of thing that leads students to gun each other down since they’re the weaker specimen?
Unquote
That’s damn funny! Too funny since the majority of the country are religious! Hahahaha!
Even the government! Hahahahahaha!
BTE,
“And that we can abort (over 50 million) helpless children in their mothers womb because they are an inconvenience?”
Over 50 million? Oh, please.
Currently, I believe we have only 3 doctors in the US that can provide that service. So someone’s defiantly lying to you. And let’s see. Who? Who could that liar be…..could it be, SATAN?!
And if you don’t think that you’re “propagating hatred” then re-read the book (without the tongue of your clergy), read it, front to back, you’ll find that it has clouded you judgement with it hate. Thus, you have been filled with the very thing that it teaches…hate. And a good liar to boot.
The concept of Hell is borrowed from Ancient Greek mythology that the Romans eventually copied. Didn’t learn any history, did you? So no. An invented concept will in no way make it real. And if you think that it can, then prove it.
Where did you get that degree from – wal-mart? I’d get a refund.
“For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth, since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them. For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse. For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man, birds, four-footed animals, and reptiles. Therefore God delivered them over in the cravings of their hearts to sexual impurity, so that their bodies were degraded among themselves. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served something created instead of the Creator, who is praised forever. Amen. This is why God delivered them over to degrading passions. For even their females exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. The males in the same way also left natural relations with females and were inflamed in their lust for one another. Males committed shameless acts with males and received in their own persons the appropriate penalty of their error. And because they did not think it worthwhile to acknowledge God, God delivered them over to a worthless mind to do what is morally wrong. They are filled with all unrighteousness, evil, greed, and wickedness. They are full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, arrogant, proud, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, and unmerciful. Although they know full well God’s just sentence — that those who practice such things deserve to die — they not only do them, but even applaud others who practice them.”-Romans 1:18-32
Pardon my language, but quoting your synthetic script at me shows how you hate anyone whom isn’t like you.
And it doesn’t mean shit.
BTE quote:
For god’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people by their unrighteousness suppress the truth, since what can be known about god is evident among them, because (dog) has shown it to them.”
A prime example of your hatred towards others whom aren’t like you. That is the written work of men that are still controlling (YOU) the flock. You are a slave of the clergy.
And I am free, and not under the bondage of your superstitious musings. Say whatever you will, whatever fancies you…for your words are without meaning, the god you think as real, as omnipresent is your illusion. A thought concept that you choose to embrace without ever knowing that he is not alive, and not omnipresent. For if he were, he’d show himself to all, and at the same time. So, a conception of the mind, a borrowed one that the you refuse to see as only a myth, has enslaved a person (you) to see no other real truth…but that from a book of lies.
I feel sorry for the blind.
I agree with the “us/them” divide, and I also agree that her line of reasoning is the fertile ground from which all sorts of intolerant thoughts can sprout. Part of me thinks, though, that her self-imposed divide and her reasoning are merely self-justification for abandoning friends she doesn’t agree with.
She replied to my comment on her thread with three bible verses, along with the statement that she “witnessed to them for five years.” She did not respond to the weight she’s given of her righteousness over the eternal salvation of her alleged friends. This is mainly why I think she’s just looking for an excuse, masking it as a call from God, and going on her merry way.
All of this is a long winded way of saying why I agree with you. But her post raises a ton of concerns for me as an atheist. What if her friends see it? I hope it doesn’t harm them to find out what she really thinks of them.
I think maybe that 5 years of being told nonsense and preached to, they may find her parting ways a relief. I would.
Lol! 😀
I told my friends what the bible says of their lifestyle and urged them to repent. When you love someone and see they’re going to get hit by a bus because they have a blind-fold on, are you going to shrug and say, “I don’t want to hurt her feelings by pleading with her to remove the blind-fold, so I’ll just let her get crushed?” Or are you going to cry out to her and plead that she removes it so she can see she’s about to die.
Spiritually speaking, this is how I see my friends. And it does break my heart that they are blind to their spiritual condition before the Judge and Creator of the universe. I’ve wept for them and prayed for them daily. I do love them and hope they repent someday as I pray that you all repent, because you and I don’t know when our last day is, and what a terrible fate awaits the one who has rejected the love and mercy and forgiveness of God because they chose to never turn to Him and be relieved of their many crimes and offenses toward Him. If a judge gives no punishment to a rapist or a thief, how is he a just judge? In the same way, God sees our moral failures and instead of ignoring them, He mercifully dealt with them by making a way to take them away from us for good: His perfect, sinless Son dying in our place. If you only chose to truly want to know if Christ is God’s Son, He will reveal Himself to you. But those who would never follow Him, even if they knew who He was, He conceals Himself for He resists the prideful. He can save and transform any of you if you are willing.
You opened a door, so I’m walking it. The rape metaphor doesn’t work. Look, if a rapist rapes everyday of his life but then repents, asks god’s forgiveness, and accepts Jesus as his personal lord and savior right before he dies, he goes to heaven. But the trauma that he inflicted upon the women (and/or men) he raped might lead them to suicide or other self-destructive behavior. Under this model, the rapist goes to heaven and the rape victim goes to hell. That right there is not a just judge.
Don’t you think the idea of forcing your son to be tortured and crucified in front of his friends and family in order to fix something is a bit shady? All I’m saying is; if I was god, I’d have figured out a way that didn’t involve my son coming to any harm at all… but hey, just me.
That’s the second time I’ve heard the “what if someone was about to get hit by a bus” metaphor.
Comparing not believing in god to being hit by a bus isn’t painful to feelings, it’s a major insult to intelligence. Religion isn’t a clear cut “my belief is right and everyone else is wrong.” Trying to force beliefs on another person is trying to instill them with values they don’t have/agree with. As long as beliefs don’t involve hurting others or oneself people are perfectly entitled to them (believing someone is going to hell does not count as self destructive behavior on their part).
And let me say, if god does exist, and he decides I deserve to go to hell even though I lived a moral life and always tried to do what I believe is best for humankind all because I didn’t believe in him then -fuck god-. I’d rather spend eternity in hell than kneel at the foot of someone so egotistical his standard of morality depends on whether or not I worship him.
She obviously has never experienced friendship. I would surmise she’s incapable of experiencing something as unselfish as deep and lasting friendship, and perhaps any normal loving relationship. That’s quite sad.
Seems to me her acquaintances much better of without her.
We attended a BBQ years ago, mainly friends, some neighbors and some people we didn’t know too well. It was fun, lots of food and lot of alcohol (of course). A “friend” of us -the one we thought we knew – got brave after a few drinks and said “I don’t want anybody on my property who doesn’t believe in Jesus”. I just looked at my hubby with the “ready to go look”. A lot of people mumbled “I believe” I didn’t and he saw it. So he asked me “Do you believe in Jesus” and told him “yes I believe he was existing”. Next question “Do you believe he was God’s son”….well we left after my loud “No”! He tried to apologize a few days later and I told him I prefer to spend time with open minded people. True story! OOOOps excuse the novel!
I can’t really say I fault her for this decision.
If you’re going to be one of those people so obsessed with religion that you have to talk about it all the time, you’re probably better off disconnecting with people who find that annoying because it’s going to be a very strained friendship.
I keep my atheistic lifestyle very private among social groups. They know I’m an atheist, but they also know me for a good person, and I know them to be good people, so none of us bother trying to convert each other. I know they respect me enough not to believe I’m “going to hell.”
If she’s so into religion that she believes people who aren’t are evil and misguided, she should cut off from them. It’s better for everyone in the long run.
I wouldn’t want to hang out with a nazi or something, and it sort of sounds like this is how she views them.